My inclination since preteen years has been towards rationalism and science. When I was an active JW, as well as during my pre-baptism years from age 10 (and possibly even earlier) till my baptism, studying the JW religion was a drag and active participation in religion was a drag. Sure, thinking I could live forever in paradise was great, but I had doubts about that doctrine being a true teaching and I was greatly bored by having to read so much WT literature, attend multiple KH meetings per week, and engage in field service weekly.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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Losing My Religion - America's progressive estrangement from organized religion
by EdenOne inthis article on the latest gallup survey:.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/america-losing-religion-effects-long-093028404.html.
in 1937, 73% of americans would be affiliated with some organized religion; that number remained steady until 1999: (70%); the 21st century brought about a major shift: 50% in 2018; 47% in the latest survey.. children who grew up in households without organized religion are less likely to affiliate to some form of organized religion.. it's not only a generational difference; the growth in those who express no religious preference is also on the rise in generation x (those born between mid 1960's and early 1980's).
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Disillusioned JW
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
Please see https://www.naturalism.org/philosophy/worldview-naturalism-in-depth/worldview-naturalism-a-status-report/contrasts-between-naturalism-and-anti-naturalism#morality . It says in the part:
- 'The “moral instinct” is part of who we are, it’s a defining characteristic of being human. We don’t, therefore, need commanding to be good; it happens quite naturally as a function of our evolved nature. We are, overall, happier, more productive, more secure and more interpersonally fulfilled when we act according to the golden rule and other ethical maxims. So the naturalist’s one-liner in response to the question “Why be moral?” might be simply: acting morally is essential for human happiness and flourishing within a community.'
Chaisson's book the Epic of Evolution, in its Epilogue, mentions that ethics are important "... because global citizenship and a planetary society are crucial factors in the survival of our species."
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
In my prior post when I wrote "5866" I meant to write "586", but you folks probably new that.
When it comes to having a belief system or worldview, after no longer being a believing JW, I opted for a naturalistic worldview grounded in scientific knowledge, the scientific method, and personal experience. I study science to build understanding of the universe and how the 'parts' of the universe are interrelated. A good book using that approach is the Epic of Evolution: Seven Ages of the Cosmos (copyright 2006) by Eric Chaisson. I also read science books and science articles on more specific topics. I just wish I remembered so much more of what I have read.
https://www.naturalism.org/worldview-naturalism/naturalism-in-a-nutshell . A basic code of ethics can be derived from such a view, including the principle of a variant of the "golden rule".
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Are You Concerned About Inflation?
by Simon ini saw a statistic the other day that something like 25% of all the debt that the us has incurred since 1776 was created in the last 12 months.
that's because they have printed so much currency and instead of letting that stop them, they are going to continue printing more to go on a spending spree on crazy green-new-deal schemes and union handouts.. does anyone think that this can be anything other than inflationary?
they are effectively stealing the wealth of everyone to then hand money out to people.
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Disillusioned JW
Where I live food is very plentiful (and in great variety) in the grocery stores.Fred Meyer's and Safeway are competing with Amazon by offering digital coupons to shoppers to download coupons from the online stores of Kroger (including Fred Meyer's) and Safeway. Other than for rent on my apartment and on food at fast food restaurants I don't notice price increases much. Part of that is because for several years now I don't do much shopping since I now have essentially all of the material things (such as electronics and furniture) I want. It is also because I am very thrifty and that I buy nearly all of my electronics and books used from deep discount thrift stores. It is also because most of the food I get is given to me for free by certain charitable organizations (who in turn received it as free from grocery stores due the stores donating their surplus that didn't sell).
Regarding my rent, it has not risen for over a year because my landlord has decided to delay raising the rent at my apartment building due the hard times many people are having financially due to Covid-19's impacts on employment.
Because of the climate in my area, because of where my apartment unit is located within my apartment building, and because if needed I bundle up while at home, during 10+ months of each year I keep my heaters (which are electric) turned off (except sometimes briefly the one in the bathroom). My electric bill (and I purchase 100% renewable electricity) has not increased much (in terms of dollars/month) over the years - my electric bill is only about $45/month.
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
Regarding 607 BCE not being the year that Jerusalem fell, I knew at least since the time that the "Let Your Kingdom Come" book (copyright in 1981) was first studied in congregational book studies that historians say it fell in 587/5866 BCE. That is because the "Let Your Kingdom Come" book has an Appendix to Chapter 14 in which the WT tries to defend its 607 BCE date while admitting that historians say the city fell in 587/5866 BCE instead. For example after presenting certain lines of reasoning based upon certain evidence the book says "From a secular viewpoint, such lines of evidence might seem to establish the Neo-Babylonian chronology with Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year (and the destruction of Jerusalem) in 587/6 B.C.E." Or, perhaps I first learned several years after the year 1981 (by reading articles online about the fall of Jerusalem) of the historians' dating of the fall.
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Are You Concerned About Inflation?
by Simon ini saw a statistic the other day that something like 25% of all the debt that the us has incurred since 1776 was created in the last 12 months.
that's because they have printed so much currency and instead of letting that stop them, they are going to continue printing more to go on a spending spree on crazy green-new-deal schemes and union handouts.. does anyone think that this can be anything other than inflationary?
they are effectively stealing the wealth of everyone to then hand money out to people.
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Disillusioned JW
It has been a great many years since I have seen high inflation in the USA. Furthermore, the USA's Federal Reserve Chairperson said recently that the federal government's efforts to stimulate the economy is unlikely to increase the inflation rate to above 2.5% (or so). Further, the previous Federal Reserve Chairperson said that competition by businesses with each other online (combined with consumers shopping for the best deals online) and with foreign businesses (including those in China) is keeping inflation rates low in the USA, despite low rates of employment (that comment was made before Covid-19 and the dramatic reduction in business activity which resulted in high unemployment rates later). As a result, I think that inflation rates will not become high in the USA within the next few years and thus I am not concerned about inflation.
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Do you sometimes bemoan the LOST idea, or Belief, that Someone Powerful was going to set all things right?
by pistolpete inso it looks like about half of my jw relatives are not going back to the meetings once they open up the kingdom halls.
the main reason all of them give is that if we were truly living in the last days, jehovah would not have allowed the door to door preaching work, and kingdom hall meetings to stop for over a year.. the elders have talked to some of them and tried to convince them that letter writing is accomplishing the same thing as door to door, and zoom is the same as meetings-----------but my relatives just won’t buy it anymore.
just a note here, at first, the kingdom hall lock-downs, and the no preaching door to door was not that bad,the relatives still held on to their faith strongly because they believed it was temporary.
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Disillusioned JW
From time to time I feel very sad that my body will become frail when I become very old and that I eventually will die and that is there is no resurrection. I also feel very sad when I contemplate the major problems in the world that thus far are not going away and that most of those are caused by human society. For example watch the programs called "Extinction: The Facts" and "Climate Change: The Facts" by the natural historian David Attenborough. The shows aired on PBS in the USA and they aired on the BBC.
But, during my teen years as an active JW and during my adult years as an active JW I did have serious doubts from time to time about the very existence of Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, Satan, angels, demons, and that any miracles ever happened. I thus didn't have great hope that Jehovah would be the one to solve the world's problems; I probably had more hope that humans would solve some of the problems, since history shows that humans have solved many problems. For example: humans ended slavery in virtually all countries, eradicated the Polio disease, have thus far avoided a nuclear war (other than the two nuclear bombs that were dropped in WWII), repaired the ozone layer (sealed up the ozone hole), dramatically reduced the per capita violent crime rates in multiple countries, made factory work far less dangerous for workers (at least in the USA), increased average life expectancy in many countries and standards of living, etc.
Regarding KHs being closed and the door to door work stopping, in past the WT/JWs fought many legal battles against various governments for the right to go door to door (including on Sundays) and to keep in KHs open. But when Covid-19 came they quickly cooperated with the governments to stop meeting in KHs and to stop preaching door to door; that is kind of strange. It is even stranger when one thinks that according the WT and the Bible Jehovah God is the creator of all living beings (other than Jehovah himself) and thus even the creator of bacteria and viruses, yet Jehovah did not prevent Covid-19 from severely disrupting the worship practices of Witnesses of Jehovah around the world.
The Bible also says that Jehovah brings diseases to punish people, yet Covid-19 is severely restricting the preaching work and in person worship meeting attendance of the Witnesses of Jehovah. How could those things happen if Jehovah is real and if Jehovah is the one and only true God and if the JWs are his chosen religious people and ruled by Jesus Christ the King of God's Kingdom? JWs should think about that question.
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Jw spokesman Says door to door preaching not coming back!
by nowwhat? inhttps://youtu.be/uaaztatkhkg.
hope link works.
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Disillusioned JW
Pete Zahut, shortly after I read your post about Mormons, I went outside. After I walked one block I saw two young men dressed as LDS (they were wearing black pants with a white shirt and a black tie) and two young women (wearing black skirts, or was it black blouses, I forget which) get out of a car and walk across the street to talk to people at a park. The four people who got out of the car were all wearing masks. I think it is interesting I saw such in my neighborhood so soon after I read your post.
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Jw spokesman Says door to door preaching not coming back!
by nowwhat? inhttps://youtu.be/uaaztatkhkg.
hope link works.
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Disillusioned JW
From what I read in an article the WT representative said that the 150 a day was the number contacting the USA branch of the religion and that it was an increase from pre-Covid 19 times. The question though is, in other countries are JWs encouraging people to contact a different website (such as one that defaults to a language other than English) of the JW religion and thus reaching a different branch of the WT? Or are they going to the same website, but in a form are they specifying the branch for their country?
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Would the world be a better place without religion?
by pistolpete ini know what you’re gonna say---------everyone has a right to believe whatever they want.. but the question above is not about everyone’s right to believe whatever.. the question is very specific------will the world be a better place----without religion.
think for a while what the world would be like without any religion.. no conflicts between islam and christianity.. no conflicts between different sects of christianity.
(example; jehovah’s witnesses vs catholics).
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Disillusioned JW
Page 169 - 170 (in ph. 2) of the WT's book United In Worship of the Only True God (copyright 1983) says: "In the year 1914 C.E. an even more marvelous event of universal importance took place. God's Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ actually was established in heaven. Next, Satan and his demons were hurled down to the earth. (Rev. 12:1-5, 7-12) The last days of the present wicked system had begun. Before the generation that witnessed the events of 1914 dies off, God will crush the entire Satanic system of things. (Matt. 24:34)"
The Governing Body of the WT religion is not being directed by an all knowing honest God. If it was, it wouldn't have made the false claim stated above. Wake up JW people! The god you worship does not exist (except as a false idea). He is only a figment of human imaginations. The one claimed to be his son, Jesus Christ, is not real either.
If you want guidance and structure in life then study helpful secular literature instead of putting your full trust in the literature available from organized religions. The best self help advice found in religious books often is based upon secular sources anyway.